/finance/ - Finance

Financial follies and monetary medleys

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Welcome to /finance/, a board dedicated to all subjects financial and economical, both theoretical and practical! 

The rules:
>0. Take it easy!
Not exactly a rule that can be enforced, but it should be included somewhere.
>1. Obey the global rules!
They exist for our common well-being. 
>2. Don't be a nigger!
That is, try to put some effort into your posts, use proper grammar and spelling, and articulate some actual thoughts. This place is not a chatroom.
>3. Stay on topic!
By staying on topic I mean staying on the topic of the board. Discussions naturally wander all over the place, therefore it is perfectly fine to start a thread about taxation and then discuss government bonds, as both of those topics are quite financial in nature. But if you want share your essay about why Atlas Fugged is the best book ever, then you should use the designated offtopic thread; otherwise don't be surprised if your post gets moved there.
>4. Use the catalogue!
Don't be afraid to start a new thread (as long as it has to do something with the topics of the board), but at least look through the catalogue to see if there is already one that covers whatever you want to post about. There is no point in every anon starting his own ˝How do I stop being a poorfag?˝ thread when one mega-thread would serve all of us better. As such, if you make a new thread that brings nothing new to the table, then it might be moved to the appropriate already existing thread.
>5. No spamming!
Should be quite obvious, but I also consider advertising events and imageboards to be a form of spam. For the latter you are free to use the designated offtopic thread. 
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How about like slightly moving the dollars downwards?

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A thread where we can discuss all kind of monetary shenanigans, from the Latin Monetary Union to the Bretton Woods system and the €uro.
Replies: >>54
>>53 (OP) 
As someone living in the funnier part of Europe, I've warmed up to the idea of joining the eurozone, because in practice it would mean a lot less inflation and lower interest on loans. The European central bank has a policy of doing absolutely nothing for the most part, so we don't even have to worry about some sinister plot on their part. And if worst comes to worst, we can always just switch back to our own currency, but it would be backed by an economy that could grow stronger over the years due to the aforementioned lower inflation and interest.
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A remnant of French colonialism that there a ton of African states that use one of two currencies pegged to the Euro, the West African Franc and the Central African Franc. Originally both of them were pegged to the French Franc, and you need 100 of either to get one a single French Franc. Then in late the 90s it was time to introduce the Euro, and so the franc was pegged to it at 6.55957 to €1. This means to this day 1 Euro is worth 655.957 of either African francs, so 1 eurocent is the equivalent of 6.55957. 

Honestly, this might not be that bad of a deal for them. True, they can't just do whatever they want with these currencies, but they don't have to worry about inflation, and doing nothing is usually the best economic policy.
Replies: >>106
There is one more currency pegged to the Euro: the Maltese Scudo. It is the official money of the Knights of Malta (Malta itself uses the Euro). It is worth exactly €0.24, which is a bit strange until you read that it is also subdivided to 12 tari, therefore it would be better to say that a single tari is worth 2 eurocents.

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Maybe some of you have seen it. Elon tweeted yesterday and the tweet was quickly deleted. Looking at the nft pointed out by Elon, it doesn't look very institutional (pridecatsnft).  Actually the price is very cheap. I have only one question in mind. Was it an accident or an alpha leak?  What are you thinking?
Replies: >>105
>>101 (OP) 
I think he wanted to shitpost like usual, but then he (or some sort of assistant or manager or whatever) thought that this might somehow or an other get him into trouble. Musk is a good investor, and by that I mean he is good at convincing others to throw money at various things, but he also seems to be a shitposter at heart. It's best to just ignore him, except if you really do have too much money.

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A thread for all stock market/forex/other security exchanges related discussion. Feel free to post suggestions, intriguing articles/findings, unfounded market predictions, gains/losses, or just shitpost on each others' portfolios to your hearts' content. Don't worry about being a beginner at trading and posting since I have yet to even create my first brokerage account. We can learn together.

Potentially Useful Resources That I've nicked from /smg/, pls no bulli
<Risk management: 

<Educational sites: 

<Live Bloomberg stream: 

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Here's some books I've found to start off as well.

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Think of this thread as a trashcan that might or might not contain something useful.
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Someone posted a couple real estate webms in the cafe so I decided to stop by.
I just want to say that I hope the housing market does crash. Uncle Sam owes me a VA loan and I don't want to buy a fixer-uper at doubled cost. Hopefully getting a loan doesn't become impossible in the process.
Replies: >>94 >>95
Does getting into finance mean that I can live the NEET life while trading securities like those NEET characters that you see in anime?

I know several people who made it big by snatching up homes when 2008 happened. It would be in all our interest for a housing crash to happen, but you'd have to worry about others who are thinking the same thing. I know for certain that big investment firms are buying as much property as they can, so there might be more competition than what you'd see back in 2008.
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Don't forget to invest your money somehow, so that you have more when it's time to join the fun. Of course it leads to the many questions of how you should invest your money so that it actually works for you, and yet you can still turn all of it into cash quickly when you need to.
>Does getting into finance mean that I can live the NEET life while trading securities like those NEET characters that you see in anime?
Yes, but only if you post on a daily basis here.
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Multimillion dollar big cheese has caves full of cheese beneath the United States (source: https://archive.ph/qFb6T ) waiting for some kind of disaster or fluctuation in prices where they can release the cheese. There's about to be a worldwide famine and agricultural nations (such as America, Mexico, and Brazil) could make quite a hefty profit selling cheese since most of the lactose is gone by the time it is processed into cheese and cheese product. Biden is obviously too scared to touch big cheese as would be any Republican. Is the key to a better life investing in cheese?

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As per the subject, assuming a Christian Populist tsunami this Autumn, do you think that the LDS church would release some of their massive food stores of, for instance, Mormon Deseret baby formula out for general sale in key regions like Blue Colorado or targeted parts of other neighboring states to end the shortages and turn a profit at the same time? Are churches secretly primed to take a key role in preventing NWO bullshit?
Replies: >>91
>>90 (OP) 
I don't know the details, but I somehow doubt that mormons were secretly amassing these very specific products for years, so that they can suddenly release them on the market to bring  down the price. Do they have some sort of a closed economy of their own that can serve tens of millions of people, and yet they just don't use all of that capacity to sell to the general market? Because that sounds implausible to me.
Replies: >>92
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>Do they have some sort of a closed economy of their own that can serve tens of millions of people, and yet they just don't use all of that capacity to sell to the general market?
Replies: >>97
Sounds like most of that stuff is already tied up for existing programs. The ˝best˝ they could do is to reroute what is meant for global disaster relief, but methinks they wouldn't do that over this comparatively small issue.

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a.k.a How should the rest of the world avoid perpetual economic stagnation Japan is experiencing for 30 years

From what I heard from the local commoners' news sites, it seems that the rising costs of everything coupled with high pay cuts in form of taxes and state-run insurances made most of the population to become misers, halting many kinds of trades. 
Most of the workforce in big cities have to cash out 30% of their salary to pay the two above which leave them with very little (<$150) disposable income every month, and the costs could run higher if they took loans.

However I don't think that alone explains why Japan ended up with a staggering level of public debt, nor explains why people are refusing to settle in countrysides where living costs are cheaper.
Replies: >>86
>>85 (OP) 
Although we should obviously explore the hows, but it's always nice to know the why, and in this case this documentary is essential:
The long story short is that the Japs came up with a system of state-controlled development in Manchuria, where bureaucrats designated various economic goals (e.g. produce lots of steel, or build a railway line between these two cities), and then helped businessmen achieve these goals. After ww2 'mericans let all these bureaucrats get into the government, which meant they actually had more power than they ever did in the 30s and 40s, as all the zaibatsu were broken up, so there was no one to say no to them. They pretty much adapted this Manchurian system to Japan, but a bit more indirectly: the state decided to prop up a specific industry, and the central bank told all the commercial banks to give good loans to companies working in that industry. And this way they propped up their economy industry-by-industry, sector-by-sector. Then a new generation of bankers came to work in the central bank, and they actually believed the education they received in the US, and so they decided to deliberately ruin this system in the 80s by causing that infamous housing bubble. They did such a good job that the Japanese economy 
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Replies: >>87
So the common point between US and Japan is that they've experienced economic crisis due to housing bubbles. But how do you even prevent that if house price normally go up in most market? 
Not even the Chinese government with its strong hold on domestic market was willing to let Evergrande and house prices fall by itself.
Replies: >>88
Those three are quite different beasts. In Japan they deliberately kept giving out cheap mortgages like candy, in order to artificially pump up the price, thus creating the bubble. After all, if all buyers can get cheap loans, then sellers can also demand more money for the same property. After a while prices got to the point where they became genuinely unaffordable, so nobody wanted to buy properties, simply because they could not afford it. And if nobody wants to buy something, then it worths less, and suddenly you had lots and lots of Japs saddled with mortgages for properties that are worth a lot less than when they took out those loans. 

In Shina, the same kind of bubble happened, except that this time it wasn't a deliberate attempt by the central bank to crash the economy with no survivors. As one strelok explained it, the average Chinaman is simply not allowed to buy stocks or bonds or land or anything like that, and the only way to invest his savings is to buy a flat. This means that every Chinaman wants to buy flats no matter what, and that leads to prices rising until not Chinaman can afford a house, and this created the same kind of bubble as the one in Nippon, just for different reasons.

What happened in the US was entirely different. There are certain financial instruments called mortgage-backed securities. The way they work is that banks pool together the monthly payments from lots of mortg
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Some Russian banks have been booted out of SWIFT, and all of them were forced to switch to the chink Unionpay card system. Is this the beginning of the world of finance being split in two?
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>that map
I'm not calling it bullshit, but it's hard to believe that all the commblock countries traded more with the US than with each other. Or it does not count trade between COMECON countries as ˝real˝ trade?
Replies: >>72
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It looks like the map only cares about USA and China, and China while still were a communist country, it was always an outlier, so I can imagine countries actually traded more with USA than China. Also note that the Chinese economy only really took off 20-30 years ago, while USA were mostly stable during this timeframe (image from kikepedia, so take it too with a grain of salt). An USA vs USSR in the 80s and USA vs China now comparison probably would make more sense.
But on the other hand, Romania is like the whitest country on the map, while they were the most (along with Yugoslavia) fuck Moscow, we're doing things our own way country in the bloc, so who knows.
Replies: >>73
>It looks like the map only cares about USA and China
I see, I guess ˝A map that shows if a given country traded more with the USA or the PRC in a given year˝ does not have the same ring to it. 
>An USA vs USSR in the 80s and USA vs China now comparison probably would make more sense.
It seems to be one of those things that are hard to cram on a map, even if you use a fancy interactive one, because to do it properly you would have to include a chart or list that shows all trade partners by percentage for every country, and that is overwhelming enough so that you really could not see the forest from the trees.
wire service he had used for years to pay vendors in Ukraine had suddenly stopped working.

He contacted AmEx for an explanation. A representative told him that the company had suspended service in the country. “I understand Russia, but why Ukraine?” Mr. Nayandin, who is based in Fairfax County, Va., said he told the AmEx rep.

Like many American companies, AmEx suspended operations in Russia and Belarus after Western governments bombarded the two countries with sanctions. But AmEx went a step further by shutting down a service in war-torn Ukraine that businesses use to make cross-border payments.

“In light of the war in Ukraine and the changing sanctions environment, which has made it difficult to provide a reliable customer experience, we have suspended a wire transfer service, FXIP, which is used by a small number of companies to make vendor payments to recipients in Ukraine,” an AmEx spokesperson said in a statement.

AmEx’s better-known card business remains fully functional in Ukraine, the spokesperson said.

Sprawling sanctions meant to cripple Russia’s financial system sometimes trip people and businesses out of their reach, even in Ukraine, the country they were meant to help.

Financial firms often take an overzealous approach to interpreting penalties due to the harsh penalties for violations. The potential extension of sanctions to new targets may also make companies cautious about who they do business with.

“From a business perspective, if the deal size is small, why take the risk? said Robert Clifton Burns, senior counsel at the law firm Crowell & Moring LLP.
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Replies: >>80
I cannot find anything about how this FXIP thing works from a technical perspective, but what makes international wire-transfers somehow complicated is that the national banking systems are not directly connected (hence SWIFT and everything else discussed ITT). The usual solution is that a bank opens an account at a foreign bank, and use that as an ˝access point˝ to the banking system of that country. I suspect AmEx also has at least one bank account in every country where it's available, in order to deal with card payments, and this system piggybacks on that. So instead of using the normal method of sending funds from a bank account in one country to a foreign bank account, they credit the sender's money on the AmEx bank account in the sender's country, and then the once receiving the funds gets them from the AmEx bank account in his country. 

In short, it really has nothing to do with the technological side of things, instead they simply decided that they won't use their Ukrainian bank account to send money to individuals and businesses.

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but what does /finance/ think of these umayyad coins. Minted during the early days of the caliphate.

Replies: >>76
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>>75 (OP) 
People making inferior copies of existing coins that they modify to fit their preferences has quite a history, especially when Musselmen are involved.
>Offa, the king whose name is also engraved along with the (badly copied) Arabic writing ruled the Kingdom of Mercia between 757 and 796 CE. He is also credited with introducing the penny to England.
>Known as “Offa’s Dinar”, it was purchased by the British Museum in 1913 in Rome. The more observant among  you may notice that the Latin “Offa Rex” is upside-down in relation to the Arabic script. It is copy of the dinar issued by the Abbasid dynasty following the move of that empire’s capital to Baghdad around 15 years before. It was commonly used throughout the Mediterranean as well as the Abbasid empire itself.  As a gold copy, the Offa dinar would have been accepted as a valid payment.
>The reason for the inscription remains unclear. Much of Offa’s reign is shrouded in the mists of history. He is responsible for the great Dyke
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Replies: >>77
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Yes, the second link is wikipedia, but it's still quite interesting how an Austrian coin was became the standard around the Red Sea, Ethiopia, and even Java and other lands too,and that lead to millions of copies of a 18th century coin being minted in the 20th century. But this time it was the Italians who unsuccessfully copied an Austrian coin:
>The MTT came to be used as currency in large parts of Africa and Middle East until after World War II. It was common from North Africa to Somalia, Ethiopia, Kenya, and down the coast of Tanzania to Mozambique. Its popularity in the Red Sea region was such that merchants would not accept any other type of currency. The Italian government produced a similar designed coin in the hope of replacing the Maria Theresa thaler, but it never gained acceptance.
Replies: >>78
But wait, there is more in the first link!
>In Brussels, the engraver that produced the dies missed out one of the nine pearls on Maria Theresa’s brooch. It might be an interesting discrepancy to us today, but it was rather an issue at the time. Ten million were made and each was greeted with disapproval from many – it's thought that the Arabs of Yemen were so used to the design of the thaler that they'd reject the coin if they couldn't feel each of the nine pearls with their thumb. London saw a similar hiccup too. Its dies missed out the central feather of the Imperial Eagle that featured on the coin's reverse. Seeing as London's dies had also been used for the thalers struck in both Birmingham and Bombay, these coins also bear the mistake.

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